Journals of the Senate
51 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2002, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 6
Wednesday, October 9, 2002
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Fairbairn, Finnerty, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, Lawson, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Robichaud, Roche, Rompkey, St. Germain, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., tabled the following:
Copy of the Commission constituting the Honourable Marie Deschamps, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, Deputy of the Governor General, to do in Her Excellency's name all acts on her part necessary to be done during Her Excellency's pleasure, dated August 7, 2002. —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-60S.
The said Commission is as follows:—
CANADA
ADRIENNE CLARKSON
(L.S.)
By Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Chancellor and Principal Companion of the Order of Canada, Chancellor and Commander of the Order of Military Merit, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada.
TO THE HONOURABLE MARIE DESCHAMPS, a Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada.
GREETING:
KNOW YOU that being well assured of your loyalty, fidelity and capacity, I, the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Governor General of Canada, under and by virtue of and in pursuance of the power and authority vested in me by the Commission of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, under the Great Seal of Canada, dated the twenty-eight day of September in the year of Our Lord one thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine, constituting and appointing me to be Governor General of Canada do hereby nominate, constitute and appoint you, Marie Deschamps, to be my Deputy within Canada and in that capacity to exercise, subject to any limitations or directions from time to time expressed or given by Her Majesty, all the powers, authorities and functions vested in and of right exercisable by me as Governor General, saving and excepting the power of dissolving the Parliament of Canada.
PROVIDED ALWAYS that the appointment of my Deputy shall not affect the exercise of any such power, authority or function by me, the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, in person.
AND PROVIDED ALWAYS, that you, Marie Deschamps, shall, during your continuance as my Deputy obey all such orders and instructions as you shall from time to time receive from me.
GIVEN under my hand and seal at Ottawa, this seventh day of August in the year of Our Lord two thousand and two and in the fifty-first year of Her Majesty's Reign.
BY COMMAND,
PETER HARDER
Deputy Registrar General of Canada
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., tabled the following:
Response by the Government of Canada to the Report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence entitled: Canadian Security and Military Preparedness (2002). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-61S.
Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills
The Honourable Senator Kinsella presented a Bill S-8, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Di Nino tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the Third Part of the 2002 Ordinary Session of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, held in Strasbourg, France, from June 24 to 28, 2002.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-62.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Yesterday, October 8, Senator Cools rose on a question of privilege and drew our attention to certain remarks made by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Mr. John Manley, regarding the monarchy in Canada. The Senator cited a newspaper in which the Minister is quoted as saying that "It is not necessary, I think, for Canada to continue with the monarchy... personally, I would prefer if we could have a uniquely Canadian institution after Queen Elizabeth.''
In making her case, Senator Cools spoke of the constitution, the oath of allegiance and the principle of Cabinet solidarity. The Senator claimed that Mr. Manley's views about the Crown breached her privileges because, as she put it, "he expects me, as a government supporter, to uphold him and what he has done. I cannot do that,'' she continued, "I will not do that and I will not defend that. As a matter of fact, I condemn that!''
Several other Senators spoke briefly on the matter. Senator Kinsella suggested that Mr. Manley would have saved himself considerable embarrassment had he exercised "custody of the tongue.'' Senator LaPierre questioned the claim of Senator Cools that the Deputy Prime Minister was actually seeking to overthrow the Queen. Senator Robichaud, the Deputy Leader of the Government, stated that the remarks of Mr. Manley expressed a personal opinion that did not in any way reflect the views of the government. Finally, Senator Murray raised some questions about the convention of Cabinet solidarity.
In considering the merits of Senator Cools' question of privilege, it is useful to restate the modern definition of privilege as explained in the British parliamentary authority, Erskine May's Parliamentary Practice. On page 65 of the 22nd edition, it is stated that "Parliamentary privilege is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House collectively ... and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions, and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals.''
In addition, the Rules of the Senate provide certain criteria by which I, as Speaker, am bound to consider the prima facie merits of any question of privilege. Among the criteria listed in rule 43, a question of privilege must "be a matter directly concerning the privileges of the Senate, of any committee or any Senator.'' It must also "be raised to seek a genuine remedy, which is in the Senate's power to provide, and for which no other parliamentary process is reasonably available.'' Finally, the alleged question of privilege must "be raised to correct a grave and serious breach.''
In accepting the modern meaning of privilege and applying the criteria provided in our Rules, I fail to see how the remarks of the Deputy Prime Minister constitute a prima facie question of privilege that affect the rights either of the Senate or of an individual Senator. Senator Cools herself cited Mr. Manley's comments in which it is clearly stated that his views on the future of the monarchy in Canada are personal. They do not reflect the position of the government, a point that was reiterated by the Deputy Leader of the Government. Whether or not the Deputy Prime Minister's opinion breaches the convention of Cabinet solidarity is not a matter that comes within the scope of parliamentary privilege. What is also clear is that the Senator has not in any way been impeded in performing her parliamentary duties as a result of Mr. Manley's comments. Consequently, I must rule that there is no prima facie question of privilege in this case.
____________________________________________________________________
With leave,
The Senate reverted to Tabling of Documents.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., tabled the following:
Second Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons for the year 2002, pursuant to the Auditor General Act, S.C. 1995, c. 43, s. 3.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-59.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Motions
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the proceedings on the Order of the Day for resuming the debate on the motion for the Address in reply to Her Excellency the Governor General's Speech from the Throne addressed to both Houses of Parliament be concluded on the eighth sitting day on which the order is debated.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the First Report of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration (Senate supplementary estimates 2002-03) presented in the Senate on October 8, 2002.
The Honourable Senator Kroft moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe, that the Report be adopted.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Other
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Roche, seconded by the Honourable Senator Taylor:
That the Senate notes the crisis between the United States and Iraq, and affirms the urgent need for Canada to uphold international law under which, absent an attack or imminent threat of attack, only the United Nations Security Council has the authority to determine compliance with its resolutions and sanction military action.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Orders No. 7 and 2 (motions) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Grafstein, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby:
That the Senate urge the Government of Canada to establish September 11 of this and every year hereafter as a commemorative day throughout Canada, to be known as "America Day in Canada.''
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Bryden moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Léger, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kenny, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wiebe:
That the Senate do resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Tuesday, October 29, 2002, in order to receive Lieutenant-Colonel Pat Stogran, former Commanding Officer, 3 Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry Battle Group, Canadian Forces Battle Group in Afghanistan, February to July 2002, for the purpose of discussing the preparation and training prior to deployment as well as the experiences of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan in the war on terrorism.
That television cameras be authorized in the Chamber to broadcast the proceedings of the Committee of the Whole, with the least possible disruption of the proceedings.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Milne, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kenny, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks:
That, within three sitting days of the adoption of this motion, the Leader of the Government shall provide the Senate with a comprehensive government response to the report of the Standing Committee on National Security and Defence entitled Canadian Security and Military Preparedness, tabled on February 28, 2002.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C., that the subject-matter of the motion be referred to the Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament for study and report; and
That the motion be discharged from the Order Paper.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was adopted.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., called the attention of the Senate to
(a) the unveiling of the portraits of former Prime Ministers Sir John Abbott and Sir Mackenzie Bowell, on Monday, June 3, 2002; and
(b) insights to current events to be gleaned therefrom, including the challenge to Prime Minister Bowell by Sir George Foster, his finance minister.
Debate concluded.
The Honourable Senator Nolin called the attention of the Senate to the findings contained in the Report of the Special Committee of the Senate on Illegal Drugs entitled "Cannabis: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy'', deposited with the Clerk of the Senate in the First Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament, on September 3, 2002.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bolduc, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report on the operations under the Canada Water Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2000, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-11, s. 38.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-57.
Report of the Canadian International Development Agency for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/ 37-58.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 4:08 p.m. the Senate was continued until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow)